What do a Jesuit priest, a venture capitalist, and a body positivity campaigner have in common?
Or: a social scientist’s defence of ‘yet another podcast’.
I’m very excited to say we have launched the Out of Hours podcast! Listen here.
Since I set up Out of Hours, just over a year ago, we have spoken to some really fascinating people — several leading academics in organisational psychology, as well as running dozens of face to face interviews. I set out a year ago to understand whether side projects were good for us, what motivates those who run them, and to understand how people turned their thing on the side into something a lot bigger: from creative businesses started on the side, to hugely popular newsletters, to top podcasts, to non-profits, to international social movements.
Out of Hours was set up because lots of good ideas get lost, and I wanted to remove barriers in the way of starting and progressing a side project. When I recorded the interviews, and listened to them back, I knew hearing the stories might be even more useful than reading written words. I wanted to share the impact hearing those stories had on me. It’s one thing to read the words to ‘just start’, it’s another thing to hear it from people who have done just that.
But why another podcast?
This podcast has been set up for people who are curious: for those who want to create something they think the world needs. They are usually driven either by a creative drive, a desire to learn new skills and test themselves, or a feeling of purpose. It’s often a case of realising: ‘this thing should exist — so if no-one else is going to do it, why not me?’.
Side projects are a manifestation of something very humanistic and existential: a sense that “there is no reality except in action.” (Jean-Paul Sartre). Actions — however small — are what counts. Sartre writes:
“There is no love apart from the deeds of love; no potentiality of love other than that which is manifested in loving; there is no genius other than that which is expressed in works of art”.
We need to fill our lives with small actions, not necessarily pivot our careers — you don’t have to be a full-time artist to do meaningful creative work. After all, we can define our own meaning and purpose in life and we are not powerless to act when we see something that angers us, inspires us or intrigues us. What links the guests is a focus on action, instead of simply having lots of good ideas. By launching a side project, they have put their heads above the parapet.
Self efficacy and side projects
The other thing that makes side projects, and the people who do them, interesting is the role of self-efficacy.
Self efficacy is a term from psychologist Albert Bandura, and it refers to the level of belief someone has about their power to impact a situation. AKA: When you have an idea to do something, do you think you would be able to do it well?
Self efficacy is a great thing to build. High self efficacy is negatively correlated with depression, and strongly and positively correlated to work performance. It even has a strong impact on writing performances, public speaking and health-promoting behaviours. As Henry Ford put it so famously: “whether you believe you can or you can’t, you are right”.
Building self efficacy
The reason self efficacy is so interesting is that it can, at least in part, be learnt by experience.
In building self efficacy, the experience of ‘mastery’ is the most important factor — mastering a task, however small. Side projects enable the mastery of new skills without the pressure to do it really well immediately, and allow skill-building for intrinsic reasons rather than extrinsic reasons such as money or a boss. You can control your own time and goals: a domain outside of the complexities and uncontrollable nature of normal, day to day paid work.
Self efficacy can also be built by vicarious experiences: observing others achieve the same thing. This is the reason for the podcast. Bandura’s previous studies have shown that we socially model ourselves: modelling ourselves on the behaviour of others. This is the reason I think the stories of people who have build side projects matter.
Putting your head above the parapet
The other thing the guests have in common is a willingness to put themselves out there, and be vulnerable. This speech by Roosevelt, made famous again by Brene Brown, sums up the type of bravery of people who start their own projects. It is much easier to be the one criticising from your sofa, or musing over your own lost potential. But really:
“It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds… who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat.”
This podcast exists to tell the stories of people who do things.
Not just building huge businesses - but building projects, social movements, non-profits and creative businesses that matter to them. It is an attempt to show people that whilst some people start from an easier place — whether it’s more time, money, network or self belief — we can all create small things in our lives that help others, contribute to a social goal or create a sense of creative expression. We don’t have to start as full time entrepreneurs to “make a dent on the universe” , as Steve Jobs put it. We can start, and perhaps continue, out of hours. Listen to the podcast here, and please do send your thoughts to me.
I’ve never edited a podcast, recorded a podcast or ran interviews — (as you may be able to tell!) so the podcast is a first-time attempt. I’d love to hear your feedback and make it better. It’s scary to put a project out there, especially as it’s not something you’re an expert it, but like many others — I’d prefer to be in the arena, failing, than throwing tomatoes from the sidelines.
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👂Listen to the podcast here.
We are always interested to interview new people, so please send an email at hello[@]outofhours.org if there’s someone’s story you think we should share.